Archilies
Level 2: Rookie

Telstra slow to release updates

Why is it that Telstra is so slow to release Android updates? It seems that all Telstra phones receive updates well after other carriers. I would expect that Telstra would do a much better job.

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58 REPLIES 58
Ben_F
Community Alumni (Retired)

Re: Telstra slow to release updates

I've posted a few times on this.... We are in the process of updating this site - http://telstra.com.au/mobile/phones/smartphones.html with up to date information on the updates we are releasing.

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Archilies
Level 2: Rookie

Re: Telstra slow to release updates

The Page you are referring me to doesn't have the device I use and doesn't fix the problem. The problem is that Telstra are very slow to release updates for the Android system. Btw I'm using a Motorola Xoom.
Level 21: Augmented

Re: Telstra slow to release updates

if the device you use isn't listed then there's no news as yet, keep waiting or go over the HTCDEV forums for details and root the device if it's that important
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Statistically, three out of five people are not the other two
Ben_F
Community Alumni (Retired)

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@jokiin wrote:
if the device you use isn't listed then there's no news as yet, keep waiting or go over the HTCDEV forums for details and root the device if it's that important

Standard Disclaimer, Rooting your device will void the warranty, so be mindful of that before attempting it.

 

B.

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Archilies
Level 2: Rookie

Re: Telstra slow to release updates

I don't see why I should have to root my device to get access to the latest version of Android.
Ben_F
Community Alumni (Retired)

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@Archilies wrote:
I don't see why I should have to root my device to get access to the latest version of Android.

Point taken, and thanks for your feedback. For updates on when we expect to release versions, Don't forget to check the above page.

 

B.

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excelerate
Level 4: Private Eye

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@Ben_F wrote:

I've posted a few times on this.... We are in the process of updating this site - http://telstra.com.au/mobile/phones/smartphones.html with up to date information on the updates we are releasing.



Then why is the Samsung Galaxy SII still not listed on this page despite the page being updated last week 17th Jan?

Level 22: Superhuman

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


Archilies wrote:
I don't see why I should have to root my device to get access to the latest version of Android.

I agree, you shouldn't have to root your device at all. It should simply do what the product specifications and marketing collateral for that model said it would, as of the time of your purchase.

 

Just to clarify, though – was your Android device sold to you with a written/express guarantee that it will always allow you to access and install the latest version of the operating system firmware?

——
Departed from CrowdSupport as of 12 June 2013, when the fun factor for me had finally completely evaporated with all the recent site layout and functionality changes, and the apparent efforts to turn a community goodwill-powered vehicle into something closer to a customer service channel.

The opinions and sentiments expressed above are mine only, and do not necessarily reflect Telstra's views or position. I work at Telstra, but my participation here is strictly in a personal capacity as a fellow Australian telecommunications services consumer, and you can safely assume you are not my customer, client, patron, benefactor or friend when I post in this forum.
Archilies
Level 2: Rookie

Re: Telstra slow to release updates

Unfortunately, no. I don't expect that my device will be supported for ever, but I do expect that Telstra will supply updates in a timely fashion for 2 years (the length of my contract).

Level 21: Augmented

Re: Telstra slow to release updates

I don't know that updates are ever a sure thing unless there are security related issues that prompt them into being a necessity, phones are not sold on the benefits of proposed updates or improvements but on features available at time of sale, anything beyond that is a bonus for sure but not a guarantee
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Statistically, three out of five people are not the other two
looktall
Level 6: Bloodhound

Re: Telstra slow to release updates

the updates are released by the manufacturer (in my case HTC) months before telstra release them OTA.

 

i find it astounding that telco's in a country such as india can release the latest official rom for my desire s and telstra are unable to.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1392772

 

what makes telstra so special that it needs to take months longer than other telco's around the world to test and release rom's that have been officially released by the manufacturer?

 

i'm pretty sure they don't have the same sort of delays when apple have new iOS updates.

 

so what's the deal?

Ben_F
Community Alumni (Retired)

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@looktall wrote:

 

so what's the deal?



I think that Jokiin summed it up brilliantly. That being said, we are working on being more transperant around the update process, and you can check http://www.telstra.com.au/mobile/phones/smartphones.html for updates.

 

B.

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looktall
Level 6: Bloodhound

Re: Telstra slow to release updates

that list is next to useless.

 

the majority of entries on that list show updates that have already occured. (and quite some time ago)

 

what we want to know is what updates are coming and when.

 

and still no mention of the desire s.

does that mean you have not even begun testing?

does it mean you have tested and decided the update wasn't suitable?

 

replying with the standard "hey guys check out this page for smartphones" is not an answer. 

Level 22: Superhuman

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


looktall wrote:

replying with the standard "hey guys check out this page for smartphones" is not an answer. 


As a fellow Telstra customer, smartphone user and CrowdSupport member, I say that is an answer, and the best one anyone who is not an accredited Telstra representative or spokesperson on CrowdSupport can really give, even if that is not what you want to hear – tough! Telstra employees who participate on CrowdSupport in a personal capacity – whether or not their status as a Telstra employee has been validated (and hence assigned a T logo in place of a column chart logo) by the moderation team – cannot tell you any more than what is on the Smartphones page.

 

If you have an official complaint to make about the Smartphones page's lack of value-add, let me refer you to (yes, yet another Telstra.com web page) the complaints policy:

http://www.telstra.com.au/abouttelstra/commitments/telstra-complaints-policy/index.htm

 

There is no reason to have a go at someone like Ben_F on CrowdSupport, and no point in huffing and puffing here if you want to agitate for change.

——
Departed from CrowdSupport as of 12 June 2013, when the fun factor for me had finally completely evaporated with all the recent site layout and functionality changes, and the apparent efforts to turn a community goodwill-powered vehicle into something closer to a customer service channel.

The opinions and sentiments expressed above are mine only, and do not necessarily reflect Telstra's views or position. I work at Telstra, but my participation here is strictly in a personal capacity as a fellow Australian telecommunications services consumer, and you can safely assume you are not my customer, client, patron, benefactor or friend when I post in this forum.
chise
Level 2: Rookie

Re: Telstra slow to release updates

" phones are not sold on the benefits of proposed updates or improvements" jokiin

 

Actually i purchased a Galaxy Nexus with this as one of the main reasons only to discover that Google is not handling the updates (as with my previous Nexus device) but that Telstra is. Now I'm waiting longer than other owners with the exact same device becuase Telstra has added what looks to be one useless Android market menu and made the firmware their own.

 

Slow delays on some devices may be escusable as local testing is required, slow delays on a Nexus device are not.

Level 21: Augmented

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@chise wrote:

 

Slow delays on some devices may be escusable as local testing is required, slow delays on a Nexus device are not.


why do you feel the Nexus should be exempt from local testing?

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Statistically, three out of five people are not the other two
Level 17: Bureau Chief

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@jokiin wrote:
I don't know that updates are ever a sure thing unless there are security related issues that prompt them into being a necessity, phones are not sold on the benefits of proposed updates or improvements but on features available at time of sale, anything beyond that is a bonus for sure but not a guarantee

That's true. Any piece of IT related kit you buy is out of date almost immediately and you live with that. BUT it's a lot easier to update sofware than hardware. So having different expectations isn't completely unreasonable.

 

I think what frustrates people is that those updates DO exist. And they DO exist for the actual device you've got. The difference between my Iconia and one I buy at JB HiFi is 3 shortcuts and the TelstraOne App. As far as I can tell, that's it. If Telstra wasn't cheaper than JB to start with and I didn't get 10% off, I'd be better off buying one from JB (from the point of view of software updates and as somebody buying outright). Maybe that's my price I pay for the discount.

 

But it is frustrating when there are issues with a device (some Iconias just turn off in the middle of the night while in standby) and an update is known to fix it (in most cases), what does one do? Return it? Root it? What actually happens if I install a stock ROM from ACER? Does it void my warranty via Telstra? Does it work properly on NextG? How do you find out?

 

If updates came out within a short period of being released, most of those questions would go away.

 

That said, I have spoken to some of the guys who are involved in this and the to-and-fro between vendor and telco and reliance on each other sounds very frustrating. Somebody needs to come up with a model for delivering telco customisations that is a layer higher than the OS so you can have a stock standard ROM with a customisation, update the ROM automatically as the manufacturer releases it and either the customisations survive or are easily reapplied.

--
Kevin
[ I am a Telstra Employee however my posts here are done in a personal capacity.]
Level 17: Bureau Chief

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@looktall wrote:

the updates are released by the manufacturer (in my case HTC) months before telstra release them OTA.

 

i find it astounding that telco's in a country such as india can release the latest official rom for my desire s and telstra are unable to.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1392772

 

what makes telstra so special that it needs to take months longer than other telco's around the world to test and release rom's that have been officially released by the manufacturer?



Maybe Telstra is more thorough. Maybe the Indian telco isn't customising the OS. Maybe labour rates in India are so much lower that you can throw many many more people at the problem. I don't know the answer. But I do know that actual work goes on to verify the performance of those phones and that things to go back and forth between Telstra and the manufacturers who, in turn, have to schedule fixes for any issues that might be found, etc.



i'm pretty sure they don't have the same sort of delays when apple have new iOS updates.

 

so what's the deal?



Apple is a special case. Telcos don't appear to have anything to do with iOS updates. Apple does its beta testing, maybe Telco people are part of those testing processes but, in the end, when Apple decides to release an update, it's APPLE that push the update. To everybody. Apple own the iPhone experience completely. They consider you a customer. I don't think HTC could make such a claim to even part of the extent to which it applies to Apple. And there's no such thing as a customised iPhone. Maybe some preloaded carrier settings but I'm pretty sure that happens during iTunes activation.

 

And Apple has its own retail presence which HTC, Nokia, etc don't have. Which means they can (and do) sell their own devices.

 

 

Sometimes it feels like people want everything. And I'm probably one of them. We want a subsidised phone. We don't want to buy outright because it's too expensive. So we buy a Telco branded phone and then demand that the Telco get out of the way forever. Except when we want them in the mix.

 

If you buy a phone outright from a non-Telco dealer, you'll get manufacturer delivered updates. Sometimes you have to choose.

 

And don't think the testing is unnecessary either. I know phones have been tested that actually broke the network and had to be rejected until fixed. (Don't recall any details but I know it has happened).

--
Kevin
[ I am a Telstra Employee however my posts here are done in a personal capacity.]
Level 22: Superhuman

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


chise wrote:

Now I'm waiting longer than other owners with the exact same device becuase Telstra has added what looks to be one useless Android market menu and made the firmware their own.

 

Slow delays on some devices may be escusable as local testing is required, slow delays on a Nexus device are not.


My understanding is that the Telstra variant of firmware on the Samsung Galaxy Nexus (i) is optimised for 850/2100 MHz UMTS, and (ii) supports HD voice, which is not a feature either enabled or user-accessible in the standard SGN firmware, on the Next G network by default.

 

Given both of the above enhancements are related to device performance specific to Telstra's network, I think there is every reason why ‘local’ testing for any firmware updates that include the enhancements (ie. for Telstra-supplied SGN handsets) is strictly required.

 

If you'd happily live without the enhancements while using a SGN handset on the Next G network, I'm sorry to hear you didn't elect to buy from a different retailer. I can't see Telstra giving you a choice of ‘non-enhanced’ firmware for the handsets it supplies. I'll gladly bet cake that across all (current and prospective) customers who bought or buy SGN handsets, there are more of them that care about the handset's actual performance – without having to download, tinker, and install radio/HD voice enhancements themselves – then those who attribute relatively more value to having prompt access to the latest release of Ice Cream Sandwich.

——
Departed from CrowdSupport as of 12 June 2013, when the fun factor for me had finally completely evaporated with all the recent site layout and functionality changes, and the apparent efforts to turn a community goodwill-powered vehicle into something closer to a customer service channel.

The opinions and sentiments expressed above are mine only, and do not necessarily reflect Telstra's views or position. I work at Telstra, but my participation here is strictly in a personal capacity as a fellow Australian telecommunications services consumer, and you can safely assume you are not my customer, client, patron, benefactor or friend when I post in this forum.
chise
Level 2: Rookie

Re: Telstra slow to release updates

The international GSM version of the Galaxy Nexus suports nextG frequencies so im not really sure that any optimisation is required on that count. As for HD voice, personally I don't know anyone with a handset that supports the feature so its of little value (the voice quality is fine as it is).

 

The way i see it timely updates and fixes trumps HD voice. Timely updates and fixes (from Google) is a big reason to choose a Nexus device, if Telstra cant get a incremental update out on time how long will it take for them to "tweak" and release the next major version on the device.

 

To be clear I'm not unhappy with the handset, I just don't think I'm getting timely software support that I paid for with a Nexus device.

Level 17: Bureau Chief

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@chise wrote:

" phones are not sold on the benefits of proposed updates or improvements" jokiin

 

Actually i purchased a Galaxy Nexus with this as one of the main reasons only to discover that Google is not handling the updates (as with my previous Nexus device) but that Telstra is. Now I'm waiting longer than other owners with the exact same device becuase Telstra has added what looks to be one useless Android market menu and made the firmware their own.

 

Slow delays on some devices may be escusable as local testing is required, slow delays on a Nexus device are not.


Did Telstra even sell the original Nexus? I remember we had to get an ex-colleague of ours now living in the USA to buy one from Google for us and then she brought it over a week later as she was visiting her family.

 

You can't compare a non-Telstra branded handset to a Telstra branded one in this case.

 

Also, you say you purchased that phone because updates were coming. Did you tell the sales person that? Did you ask them what the update rollout plan was? Did you say you were buying it on the condition that updates were released within a certain timeframe? And did the sales person accept those conditions?

--
Kevin
[ I am a Telstra Employee however my posts here are done in a personal capacity.]
Level 22: Superhuman

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


chise wrote:

The international GSM version of the Galaxy Nexus suports nextG frequencies so im not really sure that any optimisation is required on that count.


There's a difference between being “required” or necessary, and being beneficial. A lot of mobile users (rightly) see Telstra as the premium Australian mobile carrier for the coverage and performance of the Next G network, so it is in both the mobile phone users' and Telstra's interests to get the most network-related performance out of a handset, especially if it's possible to do so by tweaking its firmware (as opposed to physical enhancement).


The way i see it timely updates and fixes trumps HD voice.


That is most certainly your prerogative, and I respect your view for what it is. Being someone who is actively considering the purchase of a Samsung Galaxy Nexus myself, I'm weighing up all the pros and cons of buying one through Telstra or some other retailer, on the sum of all the relevant factors.

——
Departed from CrowdSupport as of 12 June 2013, when the fun factor for me had finally completely evaporated with all the recent site layout and functionality changes, and the apparent efforts to turn a community goodwill-powered vehicle into something closer to a customer service channel.

The opinions and sentiments expressed above are mine only, and do not necessarily reflect Telstra's views or position. I work at Telstra, but my participation here is strictly in a personal capacity as a fellow Australian telecommunications services consumer, and you can safely assume you are not my customer, client, patron, benefactor or friend when I post in this forum.
chise
Level 2: Rookie

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@KrayzeeKev wrote:

 

Also, you say you purchased that phone because updates were coming. Did you tell the sales person that? Did you ask them what the update rollout plan was? Did you say you were buying it on the condition that updates were released within a certain timeframe? And did the sales person accept those conditions? 


Prompt updates are implied when you purchase a Nexus handset, the idea is that the handset is supposed to be free of carrier meddling with your updates coming direct from Google. I did my research before I went and purchased the phone and at the time there was no mention of Telstra "tweaking" the firmware. The only memorable thing I got from the sales girl was a claim that there would be a "software" update to enable LTE (which I happily ignored as it was BS).

Level 22: Superhuman

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


chise wrote:

Prompt updates are implied when you purchase a Nexus handset,


While that may be your assumption and expectation, I'd venture that Telstra (as the retailer in question) never suggested it the ‘implication’ to you in its marketing collateral, or what the sales staff communicated to you. I also doubt Samsung Australia's own marketing collateral for the Galaxy Nexus expressly stated direct updates from Google is what you can expect. Lest you think I'm bring this up solely to ‘defend’ Telstra, let me make this clear – I'm trying to point out if you deemed receiving ICS updates directly from Google in a prompt manner is a key criterion for your assessment of what makes the SGN handset ‘fit for purpose’, you need to have expressly communicated it to the retailer prior to purchase, and relied on the retailer's expertise on the prompt to confirm the product meets your requirement, to have the backing of Australian Consumer Law in terms of having your expectations met.

——
Departed from CrowdSupport as of 12 June 2013, when the fun factor for me had finally completely evaporated with all the recent site layout and functionality changes, and the apparent efforts to turn a community goodwill-powered vehicle into something closer to a customer service channel.

The opinions and sentiments expressed above are mine only, and do not necessarily reflect Telstra's views or position. I work at Telstra, but my participation here is strictly in a personal capacity as a fellow Australian telecommunications services consumer, and you can safely assume you are not my customer, client, patron, benefactor or friend when I post in this forum.
Ben_F
Community Alumni (Retired)

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@Drat wrote:

@chise wrote:

Prompt updates are implied when you purchase a Nexus handset,


While that may be your assumption and expectation, I'd venture that Telstra (as the retailer in question) never suggested it the ‘implication’ to you in its marketing collateral, or what the sales staff communicated to you. I also doubt Samsung Australia's own marketing collateral for the Galaxy Nexus expressly stated direct updates from Google is what you can expect. Lest you think I'm bring this up solely to ‘defend’ Telstra, let me make this clear – I'm trying to point out if you deemed receiving ICS updates directly from Google in a prompt manner is a key criterion for your assessment of what makes the SGN handset ‘fit for purpose’, you need to have expressly communicated it to the retailer prior to purchase, and relied on the retailer's expertise on the prompt to confirm the product meets your requirement, to have the backing of Australian Consumer Law in terms of having your expectations met.


Even then, it doesn't guaruntee that updates will be released, it only guaruntees that you would be entitled to the remedies of the ACL.

 

B.

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chise
Level 2: Rookie

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@Drat wrote:

@chise wrote:

Prompt updates are implied when you purchase a Nexus handset,


While that may be your assumption and expectation, I'd venture that Telstra (as the retailer in question) never suggested it the ‘implication’ to you in its marketing collateral, or what the sales staff communicated to you. I also doubt Samsung Australia's own marketing collateral for the Galaxy Nexus expressly stated direct updates from Google is what you can expect. Lest you think I'm bring this up solely to ‘defend’ Telstra, let me make this clear – I'm trying to point out if you deemed receiving ICS updates directly from Google in a prompt manner is a key criterion for your assessment of what makes the SGN handset ‘fit for purpose’, you need to have expressly communicated it to the retailer prior to purchase, and relied on the retailer's expertise on the prompt to confirm the product meets your requirement, to have the backing of Australian Consumer Law in terms of having your expectations met.


I'm not really looking for a refund or to break my contract (really which other network is worth using). The implication that a Nexus handset receives updates from Google in a timely maner is generally understood across most if not all Android community websites. The stock Google experience is what the Nexus line is (or had been prior to the Galaxy Nexus), ultimately I'm just annoyed that I need to unlock the handset (voiding my warranty) and flash the stock firmware to get the stock device I thought I had purchased in the first place.

Ben_F
Community Alumni (Retired)

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@chise wrote:

@Drat wrote:

@chise wrote:

Prompt updates are implied when you purchase a Nexus handset,


While that may be your assumption and expectation, I'd venture that Telstra (as the retailer in question) never suggested it the ‘implication’ to you in its marketing collateral, or what the sales staff communicated to you. I also doubt Samsung Australia's own marketing collateral for the Galaxy Nexus expressly stated direct updates from Google is what you can expect. Lest you think I'm bring this up solely to ‘defend’ Telstra, let me make this clear – I'm trying to point out if you deemed receiving ICS updates directly from Google in a prompt manner is a key criterion for your assessment of what makes the SGN handset ‘fit for purpose’, you need to have expressly communicated it to the retailer prior to purchase, and relied on the retailer's expertise on the prompt to confirm the product meets your requirement, to have the backing of Australian Consumer Law in terms of having your expectations met.


I'm not really looking for a refund or to break my contract (really which other network is worth using). The implication that a Nexus handset receives updates from Google in a timely maner is generally understood across most if not all Android community websites. The stock Google experience is what the Nexus line is (or had been prior to the Galaxy Nexus), ultimately I'm just annoyed that I need to unlock the handset (voiding my warranty) and flash the stock firmware to get the stock device I thought I had purchased in the first place.


But thats the issue. You made an assumption based on something that has been implied from a 3rd party. Your asking for something that the device (from Telstra's perspective) was never advertised as doing (Updated direct from Google).

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Level 22: Superhuman

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


Ben_F wrote:

Even then, it doesn't guaruntee that updates will be released, it only guaruntees that you would be entitled to the remedies of the ACL.


True. However, at least then chise would get the purchase price of the Samsung Galaxy Nexus handset from Telstra refunded, and could use it to fund the purchase of a ‘stock’ SGN handset from another retailer.


chise wrote:

I'm not really looking for a refund or to break my contract (really which other network is worth using).


Sorry, now you've lost me, because you also wrote previously:


The international GSM version of the Galaxy Nexus suports nextG frequencies so im not really sure that any optimisation is required on that count. As for HD voice, personally I don't know anyone with a handset that supports the feature so its of little value (the voice quality is fine as it is).

  ⋮

To be clear I'm not unhappy with the handset, I just don't think I'm getting timely software support that I paid for with a Nexus device.


So, if you could do it all over again or simply have your handset purchase price refunded in full, would you not buy the international GSM version of the SGN from another local or overseas retailer at the asking price outright, and just put a Next G SIM card into it, and get the best of both worlds – a handset that does what you want, on the best local mobile network? The only advantage that comes to mind, then, that would make you stick with the Telstra variant of the SGN is that on a post-paid plan, Telstra effectively subsidises the handset price with an MRO Bonus.

——
Departed from CrowdSupport as of 12 June 2013, when the fun factor for me had finally completely evaporated with all the recent site layout and functionality changes, and the apparent efforts to turn a community goodwill-powered vehicle into something closer to a customer service channel.

The opinions and sentiments expressed above are mine only, and do not necessarily reflect Telstra's views or position. I work at Telstra, but my participation here is strictly in a personal capacity as a fellow Australian telecommunications services consumer, and you can safely assume you are not my customer, client, patron, benefactor or friend when I post in this forum.
chise
Level 2: Rookie

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@Ben_F wrote:

But thats the issue. You made an assumption based on something that has been implied from a 3rd party. Your asking for something that the device (from Telstra's perspective) was never advertised as doing (Updated direct from Google).


It's not like I purchased a HTC device and assumed I'd get timely updates, its a Google Nexus device which from the first have received updates directly from Google. When a carrier decides to carry a Nexus device they really shouldn't insert themselves into the software side of the device when Google is prepared to do that. 

 

Yes Telstra never used the direct updates as a selling point of the device, maybe Telstra weren't aware of this but it is implied by the Nexus name (at least to anyone that pays attention to the Android community or users of the Nexus phones before the Galaxy). 

chise
Level 2: Rookie

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@Drat wrote:

So, if you could do it all over again or simply have your handset purchase price refunded in full, would you not buy the international GSM version of the SGN from another local or overseas retailer at the asking price outright, and just put a Next G SIM card into it, and get the best of both worlds – a handset that does what you want, on the best local mobile network? The only advantage that comes to mind, then, that would make you stick with the Telstra variant of the SGN is that on a post-paid plan, Telstra effectively subsidises the handset price with an MRO Bonus.


Being that I'm stuck on contract for 24 months (with what looks like little recourse) with a handset that I do want but with tweaks to the software that cause delays that I dont want, the simplest path for me now is to unlock the device and flash the stock firmware. Again this is something I'd have prefered not to have to do.

 

Level 17: Bureau Chief

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@chise wrote:

I'm not really looking for a refund or to break my contract (really which other network is worth using). The implication that a Nexus handset receives updates from Google in a timely maner is generally understood across most if not all Android community websites. The stock Google experience is what the Nexus line is (or had been prior to the Galaxy Nexus), ultimately I'm just annoyed that I need to unlock the handset (voiding my warranty) and flash the stock firmware to get the stock device I thought I had purchased in the first place.



Hold on. Can you find any official statement, from Google, Samsung or Telstra supporting that position? Or is it just urban myth across community sites? 

 

The original Nexus was sold by Google. It HTC built it for Google who were the retailer. (They did have some partner arrangements with some US carriers but it was a Google phone). Now we're talking about a Samsung Galaxy Nexus. Not a Google Galaxy Nexus. It's a Samsung branded phone. It's not sold by Samsung. It's sold by telcos. Just like most other phones. The presumption that because it has Nexus in its name, that this means it's totally unaltered by Samsung or Telstra is just that - a presumuption.

 

And since customised ROMs need to be verified (maybe even signed) by Google (I believe), the fact that such a ROM exists would go against your argument that Google provide the Nexus line unmodified. They're participating in the modification.

--
Kevin
[ I am a Telstra Employee however my posts here are done in a personal capacity.]
Level 21: Augmented

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@chise wrote:

I'm not really looking for a refund or to break my contract (really which other network is worth using). The implication that a Nexus handset receives updates from Google in a timely maner is generally understood across most if not all Android community websites. The stock Google experience is what the Nexus line is (or had been prior to the Galaxy Nexus), ultimately I'm just annoyed that I need to unlock the handset (voiding my warranty) and flash the stock firmware to get the stock device I thought I had purchased in the first place.



it seems to be more about interpretation and expectation rather than what was promoted or offered, had the promotion by Telstra matched your interpretation I would think you'd have cause to complain, that doesn't appear to be the case though

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Statistically, three out of five people are not the other two
chise
Level 2: Rookie

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@KrayzeeKev wrote:

@chise wrote:

I'm not really looking for a refund or to break my contract (really which other network is worth using). The implication that a Nexus handset receives updates from Google in a timely maner is generally understood across most if not all Android community websites. The stock Google experience is what the Nexus line is (or had been prior to the Galaxy Nexus), ultimately I'm just annoyed that I need to unlock the handset (voiding my warranty) and flash the stock firmware to get the stock device I thought I had purchased in the first place.



Hold on. Can you find any official statement, from Google, Samsung or Telstra supporting that position? Or is it just urban myth across community sites? 

 

The original Nexus was sold by Google. It HTC built it for Google who were the retailer. (They did have some partner arrangements with some US carriers but it was a Google phone). Now we're talking about a Samsung Galaxy Nexus. Not a Google Galaxy Nexus. It's a Samsung branded phone. It's not sold by Samsung. It's sold by telcos. Just like most other phones. The presumption that because it has Nexus in its name, that this means it's totally unaltered by Samsung or Telstra is just that - a presumuption.

 

And since customised ROMs need to be verified (maybe even signed) by Google (I believe), the fact that such a ROM exists would go against your argument that Google provide the Nexus line unmodified. They're participating in the modification.


"An urban myth accross community sites" are you serious??  
There is no more point for me to go back and forth on this, ive switched my phone to the Google updated European GSM firmware (see below, no unlocking or rooting required) and already received the 4.02 update via OTA. It works great, was easy to do and the only thing i lost was the pointless telstra menu in the Android Market. The radio (gsm,nextG,3g etc) works as well or better than it did before and the battery seems to be doing better under the same load.
http://samsung.de/de/support/detail....7-5772e168e9e4

download the USB driver and firmware files to Windows (may take multiple tries, keep trying).
run USB driver app in Windows, reboot Windows
run firmware app in Windows
put phone in download mode (power off, volume down + power on, plug USB cable in)
in firmware app, click start!

and you're done!

You're now yakju with latest Google ITL41F.
Ben_F
Community Alumni (Retired)

Re: Telstra slow to release updates

Glad to see you found a way to get what you want. For the record, if you do experience any issues with the phone, it may not be covered under manufacturer warranty if its not running the firmware it came with.....

 

Just saying Smiley Happy

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looktall
Level 6: Bloodhound

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@Ben_F wrote:

Glad to see you found a way to get what you want. For the record, if you do experience any issues with the phone, it may not be covered under manufacturer warranty if its not running the firmware it came with.....

 

Just saying Smiley Happy


are you suggesting that a firmware update from the manufacturer would void the warranty of this phone?

Ben_F
Community Alumni (Retired)

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@looktall wrote:

@Ben_F wrote:

Glad to see you found a way to get what you want. For the record, if you do experience any issues with the phone, it may not be covered under manufacturer warranty if its not running the firmware it came with.....

 

Just saying Smiley Happy


are you suggesting that a firmware update from the manufacturer would void the warranty of this phone?


I'm not part of the Repair Centre that makes those calls, but considering that you have modified the device beyond the supported realm (ie: downloading a firmware designed for a German? handset, that doesn't have the Telstra baseband + any under the hood changes) I would rather be safe (hence the word may in my statement) then let any customer assume this can be done, and complaining to us when it doesn't work.

 

Considering there is a different baseband also, this may cause issues and I could imagine the repair centre saying that its not their problem, as you have chosen to update the device outside of Telstra's Specifications.

 

B.

 

 

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Archilies
Level 2: Rookie

Re: Telstra slow to release updates

If Telstra would stop putting bloatware and replease updates quickly, then people wouldn't be tempted to install firmware from other sources.

Ben_F
Community Alumni (Retired)

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@Archilies wrote:

If Telstra would stop putting bloatware and replease updates quickly, then people wouldn't be tempted to install firmware from other sources.


I'm looking at my Nexus now and I can't see any bloatware (I know this isn't the same for other devices). What you define as bloatware, another customer calls as useful content or apps. It's all about balance.

 

I'm well aware of the fact that updates need to be released quickly. I do agree with you that they should be. But I also (think I) understand why they take the time they do. Some of those theories I've posted here already. Some I'm not prepared to discuss (for reasons known only to me, myself and I).

 

At the end of the day, my personal goal here is to make sure that customers get the correct advice, and we escalate any potential issues. If people want to root their phones, or install software thats not designed by the carrier, I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with those same people expecting official support from the carrier when they install an update that the carrier has yet to push out to its customers (for whatever reason).

 

Again, your feedback has been raised, both on Facebook, and through me. As an owner of an Android Device, I'm also asking the question.

 

B.

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New Users - Click Here!

Level 17: Bureau Chief

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@chise wrote:
"An urban myth accross community sites" are you serious??  


Yes. I was asking the question. IF there is no statement ANYWHERE official that says that Nexus phones are guaranteed not to have any carrier modifications (or any carrier controlled testing and release - you don't want a phone killing your entire network) and will always receive updates as soon as Google releases them, THEN any such belief is an urban myth. I was just asking if you have any such reference. Because I'm genuinely interested in knowing.

 

I checked Wikipedia (yeah, not exactly a foolproof plan but usually a good start) and it's clear that the Nexus range are supposed to be SIM-unlocked and hardware-unlocked (There are carriers who sell SIM-locked ones!). Any references to the Nexus being unmodified by carriers refer to news articles. Which is typical of Wikipedia. No references to a google page anywhere that says that.

 

And, even if that were true- that all Nexus devices are supposed to be sim-unlocked, hardware-unlocked and unmodified by carriers, that does NOT mean that carriers do not work with the manufacturers to certifiy those phones on their networks. 

 

 

--
Kevin
[ I am a Telstra Employee however my posts here are done in a personal capacity.]
Level 17: Bureau Chief

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@looktall wrote:

are you suggesting that a firmware update from the manufacturer would void the warranty of this phone?



As others have said, it's possible. BUT it may not be unreasonable that a firmware update from the manufacturer that the reseller has not approved may void any warranty the reseller is offering you. 

 

You're expecting Telstra to support, for nothing, a modification to a device that they have not approved and do not support and did not provide. Would you be happy to send your phone to Samsung or Google overseas for repair to claim warranty?

 

What we're all trying to point out here is that you buy a product/service from Telstra and it's the product/service that Telstra sold you that you get. Not some other construct that some other organisation is offering to other people. 

 

The OS updates are tested rigourously. And, I know that sometimes faults are found that cause problems with the network. Don't forget that the NextG network has a history of being the first in the world to deploy successive upgrades to 3GSM. It's something Telstra and Ericsson are very proud of. So, it's quite possible that Telstra could find a particular interaction of phone with network that nobody else has found. 

 

Yes, Telstra is slow at it. I'm sure the guys who do it are working their **** off. I'm sure they have a long list of devices and updates they're testing and retesting. And I'd comfortably guess that they'd happily accept more people to do the job. Wouldn't we all. I too wish things were quicker. I'm after 3.2 for my Iconia. But I know what I'm getting when I make my purchase decisions.

 

And I also know that I'll live quite happily until that 3.2 comes out and no harm will befall me. And I also know that 99.9% of the people who buy those devices wouldn't even know what we are talking about. Or care.

--
Kevin
[ I am a Telstra Employee however my posts here are done in a personal capacity.]
Level 22: Superhuman

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


looktall wrote:

are you suggesting that a firmware update from the manufacturer would void the warranty of this phone?


Of course it may do so. Analogously, if you opened up your handset yourself with ‘proper’ tools and replaced a chip or component with ‘genuine’ parts that are sourced directly from the manufacturer (but are not doing so in an ‘authorised’ manner and as ‘authorised’ personnel yourself), you'd arguably and most likely void any warranty obligations the retailer (at least, and probably the manufacturer too) has to you with respect to Australian Consumer Law.

——
Departed from CrowdSupport as of 12 June 2013, when the fun factor for me had finally completely evaporated with all the recent site layout and functionality changes, and the apparent efforts to turn a community goodwill-powered vehicle into something closer to a customer service channel.

The opinions and sentiments expressed above are mine only, and do not necessarily reflect Telstra's views or position. I work at Telstra, but my participation here is strictly in a personal capacity as a fellow Australian telecommunications services consumer, and you can safely assume you are not my customer, client, patron, benefactor or friend when I post in this forum.
amb74
Level 3: Gumshoe

Re: Telstra slow to release updates

Regardlesss of anything it does not change the fact that Telstra take far longer to release updates to their devices than any other carrier ( if at all for some devices. ) not just Android but every platform that they tamper with. Its almost laughable that each one of these devices has a check for updates section - in the telstra customised firmware. Surprise surprise, there are never any available when you try it out hoping to get solutions to bugs/issues in your shiny new phone.

 

If it was only a a few weeks for these updates ( after official release, or even after other carriers have released them) no one would be worried but it is significantly longer than that.

 

And as these devices are made by other companies, we should be able to update them from said manufacturers just the same as a device we might purchase direct from a retailer, with no customised firmware - which we can get a telstra sim for and connect to the telstra network - without breaking it apparently.

 

By taking this long releasing updates to devices that have multiple KNOWN publicised bugs, you force users into other measures such as alternative firmware or official complaints that further drag telstra's name into disrepute for customer service.

 

There is another thread on this forum specifically for the Samsung Galaxy S2 Wifi Bug, it is now over a 150 posts long. Plus another thread on Whirlpool with other users venting frustration. Just for one product.

 

Why is telstra penalising their customers for dealing with them? Should we al just get in contact with the TIO, get out of our contracts and buy phones/tablets direct from a retailer (non customised) and avoid dealing with telstra as much as possible?

looktall
Level 6: Bloodhound

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@amb74 wrote:

 

 a device we might purchase direct from a retailer, with no customised firmware - which we can get a telstra sim for and connect to the telstra network - without breaking it apparently.

 


now that is an interesting point. one that seems to have been missed by everyone else.

if software testing is so important and so thorough that it must take longer than all other telco's, how does telstra deal with updates for the BYO phone users and their non-telstra phones?

 

surely the updates on those phones must have been tested by telstra in order to prevent it breaking something on their network?

if not, why are those updates perfectly ok to use on the network, but not on our phones.

crazyed66
Level 5: Eagle Eye

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@looktall wrote:

now that is an interesting point. one that seems to have been missed by everyone else.

if software testing is so important and so thorough that it must take longer than all other telco's, how does telstra deal with updates for the BYO phone users and their non-telstra phones?

 

surely the updates on those phones must have been tested by telstra in order to prevent it breaking something on their network?

if not, why are those updates perfectly ok to use on the network, but not on our phones.


I think its an excuse to get people to lie down and swallow their STATUS QUO Smiley Happy When really there is NO excuse when telcos ALL OVER THE WORLD approve something and Telstra has not. The reason is simple and it has NOTHING to do with customer service or network reliability the bottomline is MONEY! prioritise the updates to the units that will sell more if they are updated. This is very short sighted and in the long run damaging as people on the phones with no update schedule feel abandoned. What does Telstra think they will do when their contract is up?

 

Ben_F
Community Alumni (Retired)

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@crazyed66 wrote:

I think its an excuse to get people to lie down and swallow their STATUS QUO Smiley Happy When really there is NO excuse when telcos ALL OVER THE WORLD approve something and Telstra has not. The reason is simple and it has NOTHING to do with customer service or network reliability the bottomline is MONEY! prioritise the updates to the units that will sell more if they are updated. This is very short sighted and in the long run damaging as people on the phones with no update schedule feel abandoned. What does Telstra think they will do when their contract is up?


I have to reject this argument. Phones that are provided by Telcos are expected to work on the Telco's network. This is why testing is done of Telco phones, because if there is a bug, then the ACL kicks in.

 

EG: You purchase Phone XY from Telstra on a contract. The phone manufacturer for Phone XY releases an update which means that, in some cases, people cannot connect to the NextG network. Telstra delays this update to work on a fix to this bug, however people who have purchased Phone XY from the manufacturer directly update their phone, and experience issues. Telstra may not be liable to the customer who purchased their phone outright directly from the manufacturer and the customer may have to seek remedy from the place of purchase.

 

With regards to updates for BYO phones, the Customer Terms cover off what would happen if a device was to interfere with the network:

 

General Terms for Consumer Customers (edited and emphasis added) - http://telstra.com.au/customer-terms/download/document/hf-general.pdf


Causing interference

3.8  You must do what we tell you to do if your use of a service interferes (or threatens to interfere) with the efficiency of our network (including because you have inadequate capacity).

3.9  You have to make sure that no-one interferes with the operation of a service or makes it unsafe. 

 

Compliant equipment only

3.12  You must only connect equipment that complies with relevant technical standards and other relevant requirements. For these standards see the Australian Communication Authority’s website at: http://www.acma.gov.au

3.13  You must make any changes we ask to your equipment to avoid any danger or interference it may cause. 

 

Material breach by you

8.3  We can cancel your service at any time if:

(a)  you are in material breach of Our Customer Terms; and

(c)  the breach is something which cannot be remedied (in which case we can cancel the service immediately by telling you). 

 

8.4  You will be in material breach of Our Customer Terms if you:

(b)  use your service in a way which we reasonably believe is fraudulent, poses an unacceptable risk to our security or network capability or is illegal or likely to be found illegal

 

Using your service this way is also a breach that cannot be remedied. 

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Ben_F
Community Alumni (Retired)

Re: Telstra slow to release updates

Regardlesss of anything it does not change the fact that Telstra take far longer to release updates to their devices than any other carrier ( if at all for some devices. ) not just Android but every platform that they tamper with. Its almost laughable that each one of these devices has a check for updates section - in the telstra customised firmware. Surprise surprise, there are never any available when you try it out hoping to get solutions to bugs/issues in your shiny new phone.

 

I agree that it takes longer for updates to be released. I've stated my reasons that I think its this way in this thread a few times, so I won't bother repeating them..

 

And as these devices are made by other companies, we should be able to update them from said manufacturers just the same as a device we might purchase direct from a retailer, with no customised firmware - which we can get a telstra sim for and connect to the telstra network - without breaking it apparently.

 

Drat covered it off really well. If you take your phone apart using "Authorised" methods and upgraded it using "Authorised" parts from the upgrade its still unauthorised by the carrier (whom you purchased the phone from and with whom your rights under the ACL apply). If you apply an update that the carrier hasn't authorised, then the company may not be held liable under the ACL (unless it was advertised that you could make these changes).

 

Why is telstra penalising their customers for dealing with them? Should we al just get in contact with the TIO, get out of our contracts and buy phones/tablets direct from a retailer (non customised) and avoid dealing with telstra as much as possible?

 

1st point - The TIO is an office of last resort. You are encouraged to contact Telstra using official methods (http://www.telstra.com.au/complaints ) before raising your complaint to the TIO, and the TIO will not accept complaints where you have not attempted to resolve the issue via customer service channels.

 

2nd Point - If the device has a Major Fault (defined under the ACL) then you are entitled to the rights given to you under the ACL, plus any additional rights that Telstra or the Manufacturer agrees to supply from time to time.

 

If you believe your phone has a fault, I encourage you to either take it back to the place of purchase, and if they determine that the phone is faulty, they will offer you a reasonable remedy under the ACL.

 

B.

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Archilies
Level 2: Rookie

Re: Telstra slow to release updates

Given that Telstra is very slow to release updates, what is Telstra's policy when it comes to releasing updates that fix security flaws?

looktall
Level 6: Bloodhound

Re: Telstra slow to release updates


@Archilies wrote:

Given that Telstra is very slow to release updates, what is Telstra's policy when it comes to releasing updates that fix security flaws?


such as the wifi security fix that was just released today as it happens.

http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/News/13895/htc_fixes_wifi_security.aspx

 

the affected devices are listed in this article.

http://www.bgr.com/2012/02/02/wi-fi-security-hole-discovered-in-multiple-htc-devices/

 

 

holdup
Level 8: Inspector

Re: Telstra slow to release updates

The HTC sensation is listed there, does telstra intend to release a security update (once provided by HTC of course) for the phone?

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