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abthomp
Level 10: Junior Detective

Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

Answered

We were connected to the NBN just over two months ago. For the first two months stats were stable (typical shown below)

DSL Status
Up
DSL Uptime
1 day 1 hour 23 minutes 13 seconds
DSL Type
VDSL2
DSL Mode
Fast
Maximum Line rate
39.3 Mbps 90.22 Mbps
Line Rate
20 Mbps 54.99 Mbps
Data Transferred
13.15 MBytes 103.92 MBytes
Output Power
6.1 dBm 14.4 dBm
Line Attenuation
5.5, 23.4, 36.9 dB 12.1, 30.2, 47.3 dB
Noise Margin
18.2 dB 16.1 dB

About a week ago we started getting dropouts. Started with once a day, now up to +10 per day. Typical stats are now;

DSL Status
Up
DSL Uptime
5 hours 9 minutes 59 seconds
DSL Type
VDSL2
DSL Mode
Fast
Maximum Line rate
25.84 Mbps 37.98 Mbps
Line Rate
20.4 Mbps 37.19 Mbps
Data Transferred
214.38 MBytes 344.69 MBytes
Output Power
7.1 dBm 14.3 dBm
Line Attenuation
7.0, 25.0, 38.8 dB 13.8, 32.2, 49.8 dB
Noise Margin
16.6 dB 12.8 dB

 

Gradually getting worse and worse. I've rebooted the modem. Any other suggestions?

1 ACCEPTED SOLUTION

Accepted Solutions
Level 24: Supreme Being
Level 24: Supreme Being
Accepted Solution

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

You want have to put up with reduced speeds. Eventually the fault will be found and you link will be capable of the same speed as previous. There have been other cases were the link speed has dramatically decreased and it has taken several tech visits before the fault has been found. You just have to be patient. It is only when the link is incapable of providing the speed that you would have to put up with the reduced speed.

 

 

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36 REPLIES 36
Level 24: Supreme Being
Level 24: Supreme Being

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

There could be an faulty connection in the street cabling that could be causing the low speed and drop outs. Could you post your DSL Diagnostics, these will give a better indication. The line status does show a slight increase in attenuation and decrease in Noise Margin but not enough to explain the more than halving of the maximum link speed.

 

Have you reported a fault to Telstra support as NBN Co should send a Technician to investigate if the link is dropping out 10 times a day. 

abthomp
Level 10: Junior Detective

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

Just got off the phone with Telstra. Line to be monitored for 24 hours and recheck in 72 hours to see if NBN tech is necesary

These DSL stats?

Parameters Last 15 min Current Day Prior Day Showtime
Link Retrain Count 0 4 0 0
Sync Bandwitdh(Down/Up) - - - 37.19M/20.4M
Loss of Sync,LOS(Local/Remote) 0/0 0/13 0/0 0/0
Loss of Framming,LOF(Local/Remote) 0/0 0/13 0/0 0/0
Loss of Margin,LOM(Local/Remote) 0/0 0/53 0/0 0/6
Forward Error Correction,FEC 0/0 137/382 0/0 8077/47544
Cyclic Redundancy Correction,CRC 0/0 169/328 0/0 35/69
Errored Seconds,ES 0/0 98/215 0/0 20/34
Severely Errored Seconds,SES 0/0 59/162 0/0 11/20
Unavailable Seconds,UAS 0/0 768/810 0/0 0/0

Level 24: Supreme Being
Level 24: Supreme Being

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

Those figures do indicate a problem with the link between the node and the modem. You normaly only see FEC and perhaps a few CRC, ES and SES. Link retrain counts occur when the modem or node can no longer accurately decode the incoming data and drops the internet connection to retrain the connection. The counters get reset every time the modem is rebooted,  if modem has been rebooted would explain why the prior day's counter are showing zero.

abthomp
Level 10: Junior Detective

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

I'm just thinking that the commencement of the issues coincided with the commissioning of the retic in the newly established park in which the node sits.

Wonder if the gear is getting wet?

Bloke at Telstra reckons +70 dropouts in the last 6 days with 5 between 2 and 3 am this morning.

Been relatively stable since then but download still sitting mid 30's

abthomp
Level 10: Junior Detective

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

Other thing I've noticed is we used to get ticks against Next Hop Ping IPV6 and First DNS Server IPV6 Ping.

Now it says Not all pings were answered or not connected

Level 24: Supreme Being
Level 24: Supreme Being

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

Do you have a IP version 6 address? Not all IPv6 pings being answered or not connected would only indicate a problem with IPv6 networking and if all IPv 4 tests are okay not a problem with the FTTN link.

abthomp
Level 10: Junior Detective

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

There's an IPV6 address listed in my modem stats

abthomp
Level 10: Junior Detective

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

28 hours of extremely stable access albeit at markedly reduced download speeds.

How would Telstra achieve this change (no dropouts and reduction of speed) given they claim it's an NBN issue that they have to refer to NBNCo to fix?

Level 25: The Singularity
Level 25: The Singularity

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

They achieve this by referring the problem to NBN Co who then apply a stability profile to your service (the Node can also automatically apply a stability profile if it detects an unstable connection, although it's not always particularly good at doing it).

Never be afraid to back yourself when trying new things, just always make sure you have 3 escape routes if things go wrong.
Level 24: Supreme Being
Level 24: Supreme Being

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

Modem stats don't lie and your modem DSL Link Diagnostics clearly indicate the dropouts were due too NBN FTTN link. If you check the stats for current day there should be no link retrain counts and only FEC, ES, CRC and SES errors.

abthomp
Level 10: Junior Detective

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

So they can get an instantaneous response from NBNCo.?

abthomp
Level 10: Junior Detective

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

The only error that has come up in the last 28 hours is FEC at 6/10.

Otherwise all zeroes.

They've certainly "stabilised" it.

The issue now is I'm paying for 50/20 and not getting it at any time of the day.

Redgumtv
Level 4: Private Eye

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

All ISP's (including Telstra) have the ability to apply profiles to your service and in simple terms this means restricting speed which in turn lowers the frequency of dropouts etc. In practice, the client gets less dropouts and the ISP gets less complaints whilst the matter is being attended to. Line faults from the node to the home are the responsibility of NBN Co and sometimes, most times, these take a good deal of time to fix.

Even though my service was 100/40 the line is only capable of 53Mbps but originally was only getting 29/5Mbps. It took NBN Co just over 14 months to review the problem despite at least 17 requests by my Telco. Eventually an NBN Tech ended up at my door, observed the problem, switched my telecom pair over (most homes have two pairs of cables coming to their door), went to the local pit and found a poor join, fixed it. I rebooted the system and wallah!, my speeds my speed increased instantly to 45/10Mbps.

This is a very common problem with FTTN which still relies on distance to the node.

I went to the Senate enquiry in Canberra early last year and at that point there were over 70,000 similar complaints Australia wide that needed attention. The real solution is FTTP and another 50 truck loads of NBN technicians to install and repair.

Old Wizard.
Level 25: The Singularity
Level 25: The Singularity

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

For stuff that NBN Co can do remotely, yes, things can get done very quickly (I've been with a tech who was on the phone to NBN Control doing tests and settings were getting changed on the fly). It's usually when a technician's visit is required (and sounds like it still may be required in your case in order to get a proper fix) that it can take weeks of waiting.

Never be afraid to back yourself when trying new things, just always make sure you have 3 escape routes if things go wrong.
abthomp
Level 10: Junior Detective

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

What peeves me is a week ago I had a stable connection with max line speeds of 90 down/40 up and I was getting actual speeds of 55 down/25 up.

Now max line speed 38 down/25 up, actual speed 37 down/20 up.

There's an obvious fault.

NBNCo. need to employ the people to get faults fixed in a timely manner.

Telstra need to compensate customers for not providing the services they have contracted to do so.

abthomp
Level 10: Junior Detective

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

So if it's to be weeks will Telstra compensate for their inability to meet the terms of their contract?

Redgumtv
Level 4: Private Eye

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

Will the Broncos win the NRL Grand Final?

Old Wizard.
abthomp
Level 10: Junior Detective

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

Nothing sensible to add?

 

Redgumtv
Level 4: Private Eye

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

Sorry, history repeats itself.

You could advise the Ombudsman?

Old Wizard.
Level 21: Augmented

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

Few posts above you said: "The issue now is I'm paying for 50/20 and not getting it at any time of the day." During investigation, someone discovered that you were on incorrect speed and put it back to 50/20...

DISCLAIMER: I do not work for Telstra or any other ISP. I never did. I have wealth of practical knowledge in Computer Security and Forensic Computing. I have been in the field since 1985.

Likes (formerly Kudos) and solutions are appreciated!!!
The comments expressed by me reflect my user experience and personal opinion.
abthomp
Level 10: Junior Detective

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

I am paying for 50/20, the line was capable of 90/40, I was getting 55/25.

I am still paying for 50/20, the line is now capable of 38/25 and I'm now getting 37/20.

Not quite sure what point you think your are making but you're making no sense whatsoever.

abthomp
Level 10: Junior Detective

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

That's next Monday's task. 

I'll let Telstra have their full 5 business days to get back to me.

Going on previous behaviour that won't happen but one can always live in hope.

Level 21: Augmented

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

Telstra will rightly blame NBN as they cannot do anything about it other than complain to NBN. NBN will say that currently they are legally required to provide at least 12 download (which they in your case do). So Telstra will offer you to downgrade to 25/12 (if they still sell it) and you will be worse off... That's current reality with NBN.

DISCLAIMER: I do not work for Telstra or any other ISP. I never did. I have wealth of practical knowledge in Computer Security and Forensic Computing. I have been in the field since 1985.

Likes (formerly Kudos) and solutions are appreciated!!!
The comments expressed by me reflect my user experience and personal opinion.
abthomp
Level 10: Junior Detective

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

If that's what you were trying to say why didn't you just say it?

Redgumtv
Level 4: Private Eye

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

And, that's exactly what happened to me with TPG. TPG got nowhere with NBN and it went on for months whilst I remained on 100/40 (living in hope). When NBN finally came to the door, changed the pair and fixed the cable TPG moved me down to 50/20 knowing quite well that the line would never improve from maximum 53Mbps, confirmed by NBN in the solution.

I had an ongoing complaint with the Ombudsman, advised them of the solution and change of speed to 50/20 and they ordered TPG to refund six months of broadband NBN fees, which they did.

TPG  knew of the maximum speed my line was capable of right from the outset and should never have sold me a product I couldn't use. I still live in hope that NBN will install FTTP so I can enjoy 100/40 like we should have done right from the outset.

Old Wizard.
abthomp
Level 10: Junior Detective

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

Well given our service was more than capable of 50/20 and did so for plus two months and it's only now gone to s**t it's a bit of a different story.

If the current connection status is the new reality then I'm certainly not going to be continuing to pay for 50/20 when it's not going to be delivered.

Simply put Telstra can either get NBNCo. to fix the fault or reduce my bill to suit the new speed.

Don't care either way but I'm not going top continue to fork out for a contract that Telstra aren't honouring.

 

Level 21: Augmented

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

Admittedly, I do not know what current deals are, but I would rather pay for tier 50 than for tier 25. The problem is that even when they say 50 or 25, actual guaranteed speed is only 40 and 20 respectively, with all the associated CVC risks. What would scare me significantly would be low upload (4 guaranteed on tier 25) - as an IT professional, often upload speed might be more important for me than download...

And to be fully transparent - I was in the same predicament. Being about 1100 metres from the node, I was initially getting gorgeous 33 down, only to drop to around 13 after about 10 months... NBN did not want to do anything about it, even though Telstra was pushing hard (at that time I was member of Brains Trust here) officially and unofficially. It took several months of fighting to finally get me reconnected to micro-node that was installed in my street to service properties further in the street (I am in rural residential area of 3+ acres lands, so distances are significant). Since then, I am now enjoying (on FTTN!!!) 

 

Maximum Line rate

46.74 Mbps 137.13 Mbps
Line Rate
40.59 Mbps 109 Mbps
DISCLAIMER: I do not work for Telstra or any other ISP. I never did. I have wealth of practical knowledge in Computer Security and Forensic Computing. I have been in the field since 1985.

Likes (formerly Kudos) and solutions are appreciated!!!
The comments expressed by me reflect my user experience and personal opinion.
Level 25: The Singularity
Level 25: The Singularity

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

The 40/20 isn't actually guaranteed, it's only "typical" peak speeds.

Never be afraid to back yourself when trying new things, just always make sure you have 3 escape routes if things go wrong.
abthomp
Level 10: Junior Detective

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

So Telstra clients should just put up with s**t service because the alternative is Telstra will give them even sh**tier service?

So apparently Telstra "insiders" can bypass the s**t service?

Nice to know that clients of +30 years history don't count for s**t.

Third world service and third world level corruption.

What I'd like now is for you to withdraw from this conversation.

You've added zero value.

In fact all you've done is make matters more murky.

Do not ever again interject into one of my queries.

 

 

Level 24: Supreme Being
Level 24: Supreme Being
Accepted Solution

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

You want have to put up with reduced speeds. Eventually the fault will be found and you link will be capable of the same speed as previous. There have been other cases were the link speed has dramatically decreased and it has taken several tech visits before the fault has been found. You just have to be patient. It is only when the link is incapable of providing the speed that you would have to put up with the reduced speed.

 

 

abthomp
Level 10: Junior Detective

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

I'll still be demanding a reduced cost for the interim.

The more the Telcos hurt because of NBN faults the more pressure they'll place on NBNCo.

Redgumtv
Level 4: Private Eye

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

I really feel for you. It's like banging your head against the wall.

1. The real villain is NBN Co. They're responsible for everything telecom from the front of your house to the exchange and on to infinity. NBN Co are the only ones that can fix your line and they're the only one you can't contact direct because they hide behind government legislation. They are a government department.

2. You could change Telco's but you won't solve your technical problems, just start all over again.

I spent 14 months trying to solve my technical problems, 3 times to the Ombudsman, twice to my local Federal member and once to a Senate enquiry in Canberra. Plenty of sympathy and plenty of advice but NBN Co told my local Federal member to buzz off when he made enquiries to NBN Co. Said he wasn't the registered owner of that particular line.

The point is that I eventually got a small increase in my line speed from 29Mbps to 36Mbps download, dropped from 100/40 plan to 50/20 plan and a six month refund from my telco because the Ombudsman said they should have done that in the first place.

What can you do? 1. Stay with Telstra and harass them until they get NBN Co to do what they have to do. 2. Negotiate with Telstra a suitable monthly payment.

Changing Telcos will achieve nothing because they have no authority over NBN Co.

Old Wizard.
abthomp
Level 10: Junior Detective

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

I have no intention of changing Telcos at this time. There's no point given there's a fault on the connection somewhere.

I will continue to give Telstra grief though.

At this stage their logic is the +10 dropouts a day have stopped so they can see no reason to log a fault with NBNCo even though I am not getting the speed I am paying for.

NBNCo may be the villians but Telstra is enabling that behaviour through unwillingness to hold them to account.

If Telstra develop some spine or think about putting customers first they'll get together with the other Telcos and lobby Canberra to get NBNCo to take responsibility for their  mess.

Highlighted
abthomp
Level 10: Junior Detective

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

So after another day of 12 outages within a period of less than 24 hours Telstra finally consent to ramp this up as a complaint to the NBN.

24 hours later we get 2 truckloads of NBN "technicians" at our house.

Arrogant and rude.

Making insulting comments about "old people"

They blame the smart wiring, they blame the surge buster.

They butcher our home cabling.

They don't check the connection at the node.

10 minutes after they leave - dropout.

So now we've still got;

- an unreliable and erratic NBN connection

- we can no longer connect at previous speeds from the modem to TV's and set top boxes

-  2 data outlets are no longer functional

and to top it all off the speed is no better and we're still getting dropouts.

What is required here is a Royal Commission and gaol time for the people responsible for this farce.

Level 24: Supreme Being
Level 24: Supreme Being

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

I expected the dropouts to come back. Stability profiles rarely fix drop outs permanently at best they might reduce the number of dropouts and result in reduced speed. Have you altered the house wiring or added extra surge protectors between when the link was stable and the reduction in speed? If there was no modifications then it is unlikely to be your house wiring causing the dropouts and reduced speed.

abthomp
Level 10: Junior Detective

Re: Erratic speeds and drop outs NBN FTTN

No changes made at all in the house.

Tried to explain that to the NBN people but they wouldn't listen.

Something that worked perfectly for ~2 months is now unreliable.

During that period no changes in the house but they've been up at the node often.

The answer is obvious but from what I saw yesterday problem solving is not something their people are strong on.

I've put the surge buster, that they took out yesterday, back in. It does have an impact on speed but I prefer having the protection.

 

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