Wibblenz
Level 2: Rookie

NBN Line speed changes every week like clockwork

Ok, dont expect to get any sensible answers from a Telstra rep but really want to know if others have similar experience to us.

 

We live in an area that is in 'co-existence' and have connected to FTTN NBN about 4 months ago. Line speed is much as expected - 40-43Mb/s download 12-13 upload due to distance from the node which we believe to be over 800m. 

 

Odd thing is, after a few initial problems of service outages ('fixed' by a replacement Smart Modem - we think the lines were being worked on and the modem replacement working was coincidence - now we get two distinct line speeds each week. This started after the line speed stayed constant (but at 25-28Mb/s which we assumed was due to distance from our node) for 2-3 months.

 

Usually on Sunday/Monday line speed is around 43 and speed tests return 37-40 as expected, but by Thursday/Friday - sometimes earlier, this week the normal speed lasted just 2 days - this what happens : the VDSL connection drops and then returns again after 2-3 minutes and then is rock solid and stable but at 27-29 Mb/s download 9-10 upload.

 

This situation stays like that until the next 'changeover' which can be as early as 3-4 days or the following week and it always seems to return to the normal line speed early in the week.

 

So - my question is : does anybody else experience this and (Telstra tech welcome to chime in here) does co-existence cause this and is it due to crosstalk between ADSL2+ lines and NBN equipped ones?

 

Nothing changes in the house or even outside as wet weather makes no difference, it seems to just be a regular weekly thing and becomes annoying as often we are in the middle of watching something when it drops out. 

 

Any (well almost any) input greatly welcome!

Andy

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18 REPLIES 18
Ozmoz
Level 22: Superhuman
Level 22: Superhuman

Re: NBN Line speed changes every week like clockwork


@Wibblenz wrote:

Ok, dont expect to get any sensible answers from a Telstra rep but really want to know if others have similar experience to us.

 

We live in an area that is in 'co-existence' and have connected to FTTN NBN about 4 months ago. Line speed is much as expected - 40-43Mb/s download 12-13 upload due to distance from the node which we believe to be over 800m. 

 

 


@Wibblenz I'll leave your issue to one of the guru's but in the mean time can you post your full modem stats?

 

(Info should look something like this)
DSL Status Up
DSL Uptime 7 days 2 hours 10 minutes 49 seconds
DSL Type VDSL2
DSL Mode Fast
Maximum Line rate 21.06 Mbps 38.83 Mbps
Line Rate 21.37 Mbps 38.69 Mbps
Data Transferred 3175 MBytes 2889.84 MBytes
Output Power 8.6 dBm ,12.3 dBm
Line Attenuation 5.5, 32.8, 51.6 dB,15.6, 42.8, 64.6 dB
Noise Margin 5.6 dB, 5.9 dB

 

I would still think though, with a download speed of that nature your upload speed should be much higher.

Someone keeps putting vegetables in my beer crisper :-(

Footnote: I don't work for Telstra, I just try to help out fellow Telstra customers.
Wibblenz
Level 2: Rookie

Re: NBN Line speed changes every week like clockwork

Hi OzMoz current VDSL results are these (Ill dig out a screenshot of what its like when we are getting 43/13 (which it was on this morning)

DSL Status Up
DSL Uptime 1 hour 36 minutes 55 seconds
DSL Type VDSL2
DSL Mode Fast
Maximum Line rate 9.64 Mbps 28.54 Mbps
Line Rate 9.64 Mbps 28.46 Mbps
Data Transferred 38.68 MBytes 468.55 MBytes
Output Power 7 dBm 12.3 dBm
Line Attenuation 15.1, 49.3, 76.7 dB 26.8, 60.5, 87.9 dB
Noise Margin 6.4 dB 6.1 dB
Ozmoz
Level 22: Superhuman
Level 22: Superhuman

Re: NBN Line speed changes every week like clockwork


@Wibblenz wrote:
Hi OzMoz current VDSL results are these (Ill dig out a screenshot of what its like when we are getting 43/13 (which it was on this morning)


@Wibblenz Thanks! Will be interesting to compare.

Someone keeps putting vegetables in my beer crisper :-(

Footnote: I don't work for Telstra, I just try to help out fellow Telstra customers.
Jupiter
Level 25: The Singularity
Level 25: The Singularity

Re: NBN Line speed changes every week like clockwork

Given that your line speed is showing close to what the Maximum Line Rate is, then it is something to do with the Node itself. It could be the management software applying a stability profile due to excessive throughput at the node (over all connections), overheating (slowing the entire system down reduces system heat), equipment fault, or crosstalk.

It would require NBN to investigate in order to determine what the cause actually is.

Keep taking screenshots (actual screenshots using the snipping tool, not copy and paste) of the stats screen on the modem for a period of weeks. Then report it as a fault. When the fault isn't rectified, lodge a complaint direct with NBN Co via their contact us link on their website and attach the screenshots as part of the message. Explaining that their processes do not allow your RSP to successfully request the problem to be investigated. They will tell you to go back to your RSP, so you then lodge a complaint through Telstra, again with sending the screenshots, but also send a copy of the email correspondence you get from NBN Co.

If that fails to get it resolved, lodge a complaint about NBN Co (not Telstra, as that would be attacking the wrong end of the problem) with the TIO. Include all the correspondence from both Telstra and NBN Co. With NBN Co, you need to go in fully armed to get them to even admit that there is a problem. Once they do send someone to investigate, it usually gets resolved fairly quickly.
Never be afraid to back yourself when trying new things, just always make sure you have 3 escape routes if things go wrong.
Wibblenz
Level 2: Rookie

Re: NBN Line speed changes every week like clockwork

Excellent info thanks for that will start tracking the actual changes.

Would leave it and wait for the coexistence eriod to finish but honestly, I dont trust Telstra especially after they essentially abandoned the village we live in as far as SDSL2 evening speeds - we suffered for over a year with gradually declining speeds but nothing was done. Of course this was because they knew the 'problem' would become NBNCo's problem!

Cheers, Andy

Jupiter
Level 25: The Singularity
Level 25: The Singularity

Re: NBN Line speed changes every week like clockwork

Not economical to try and fix the problems with ADSL once the NBN started rolling out, they couldn't recoup the investment (they are a listed business, after all - corporations law means you must protect the shareholders interest first).

 

Start recording your evidence now, even if you don't put the process in play until after the coexistence period. To be honest, those sorts of drops are far greater than would be expected (10%) for coexistence measures.

Never be afraid to back yourself when trying new things, just always make sure you have 3 escape routes if things go wrong.
Wibblenz
Level 2: Rookie

Re: NBN Line speed changes every week like clockwork

Ok so dropped once again and returned to 'normal' speed. Noise/Power/attenuation looks much the same to me...

 
 DSL Status
Up
DSL Uptime
4 hours 53 minutes 31 seconds
DSL Type
VDSL2
DSL Mode
Fast
Maximum Line rate
13.21 Mbps 41.82 Mbps
Line Rate
13.21 Mbps 40.89 Mbps
Data Transferred
1801.6 MBytes 2394.28 MBytes
Output Power
7.9 dBm 12.4 dBm
Line Attenuation
9.2, 44.3, 68.0 dB 20.4, 54.9, 84.3 dB
Noise Margin
6.1 dB 6.2 dB
 
cf4
Level 25: The Singularity
Level 25: The Singularity

Re: NBN Line speed changes every week like clockwork

The attenuation is slightly lower but not enough to explain the almost doubling of speed. The modem and Node try to maintain a constant noise margin so that the signal can be decoded accurately., The noise margin only changes if a stability profile is applied to prevent drop outs on a faulty line. If a stability profile is the noise margin is doubled.
It could be intermittent noise that is resulting in the reduced speed. The noise if its at a high frequency will not be audible to the human ear. It would be interesting to compare the bit loader graph for the normal speed and reduced speed.

Ozmoz
Level 22: Superhuman
Level 22: Superhuman

Re: NBN Line speed changes every week like clockwork


@Wibblenz wrote:

Ok so dropped once again and returned to 'normal' speed. Noise/Power/attenuation looks much the same to me...

 
 DSL Status

Maximum Line rate
13.21 Mbps 41.82 Mbps
Line Rate
13.21 Mbps 40.89 Mbps

@cf4 Have you notice a high download line rate with such a low upload rate before? It looks really weird. Not to mention that fact that the download rate it keeps changing.

Someone keeps putting vegetables in my beer crisper :-(

Footnote: I don't work for Telstra, I just try to help out fellow Telstra customers.
cf4
Level 25: The Singularity
Level 25: The Singularity

Re: NBN Line speed changes every week like clockwork

@Ozmoz. Yes I have that almost the same link speed as my connection

 

Actual Rate [Kbps]       

4290113227

Maximum Rate [Kbps]

4290113227
Ozmoz
Level 22: Superhuman
Level 22: Superhuman

Re: NBN Line speed changes every week like clockwork


@cf4 wrote:

@Ozmoz. Yes I have that almost the same link speed as my connection

 

Actual Rate [Kbps]       

4290113227

Maximum Rate [Kbps]

4290113227

It looks like the NBN is keeping the upload speed locked at max 15Mbps.

 

Mines complete opposite...

 

Maximum Line rate
 21.42 Mbps  40.49 Mbps
Line Rate
 21.42 Mbps  39.12 Mbps
Someone keeps putting vegetables in my beer crisper :-(

Footnote: I don't work for Telstra, I just try to help out fellow Telstra customers.
cf4
Level 25: The Singularity
Level 25: The Singularity

Re: NBN Line speed changes every week like clockwork


@Ozmos
The difference in the upload speed compared to download speed could be something to do with the difference in characteristics of the cable. The upload link uses different frequency tones to send the signal than the download link. In general there is an optimum frequency range for the cable and attenuation increases at very low frequency and then increases as the frequency increases past the optimum frequency range (300-3.4 KHz). The frequency response will vary with cable type and the quality of the terminations.
Wibblenz
Level 2: Rookie

Re: NBN Line speed changes every week like clockwork


@cf4 wrote:

It could be intermittent noise that is resulting in the reduced speed. The noise if its at a high frequency will not be audible to the human ear. It would be interesting to compare the bit loader graph for the normal speed and reduced speed.

 

Yes but can't see how to grab that due the wide image - any suggestions on how to do that?

Andy


 

cf4
Level 25: The Singularity
Level 25: The Singularity

Re: NBN Line speed changes every week like clockwork

You would have to take several images. If there is a frequency range were the number of bits per tone is significantly different on the low speed graph to that on the normal speed graph that would indicate frequency range were the problem is occurring

Wibblenz
Level 2: Rookie

Re: NBN Line speed changes every week like clockwork


@cf4 wrote:

You would have to take several images. If there is a frequency range were the number of bits per tone is significantly different on the low speed graph to that on the normal speed graph that would indicate frequency range were the problem is occurring


Ok, thanks will do that. 

Wibblenz
Level 2: Rookie

Re: NBN Line speed changes every week like clockwork

By the way, I find it interesting that no Telstra rep has made any comments. Didn't really expect any answers but would have thought that a 'have you restarted the modem?' or 'is it the same on WiFi?' or other inane comments. I guess they figure this is a topic that they can't offer any input, especially if a supervisor is watching... or am I too cynical??
Wibblenz
Level 2: Rookie

Re: NBN Line speed changes every week like clockwork

I meant to include this with the initial post but forgot - we have a 50 pair cable in the route to the node that apparently had just the one spare non-noisy pair left after all the attempts to cure our dropouts prior to the NBN connection. I had a complaints manager assigned to the case who promised I would be advised when this cable would be replaced - nothing so far and as it seems that NBN Co now controls line maintenance unless a new connection is requested and there are no working (well not noisy anyway) pairs in the cable then I doubt it will ever get changed. If we get a sudden drop in speed and dropouts again and we have new neighbours on the street, I'll be complaining daily!
Ozmoz
Level 22: Superhuman
Level 22: Superhuman

Re: NBN Line speed changes every week like clockwork


@Wibblenz wrote:
By the way, I find it interesting that no Telstra rep has made any comments. Didn't really expect any answers but would have thought that a 'have you restarted the modem?' or 'is it the same on WiFi?' or other inane comments. I guess they figure this is a topic that they can't offer any input, especially if a supervisor is watching... or am I too cynical??

Well @cf4 has posted some very interesting idea's on possible causes. But the reality is, in this case, a Telstra rep can only point you in the direction of technical support. So you need to keep at them until it is resolved I'm afraid.

 

It looks to me that NBS Co are in the end, the only ones that can fix it.

 

I do hope you get it fixed, and that you pop back with info on what was the actual cause.

Someone keeps putting vegetables in my beer crisper :-(

Footnote: I don't work for Telstra, I just try to help out fellow Telstra customers.

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