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Level 1: Cadet

Telstra Smart Community FTTP - New Gigabit plans

I live on a relatively new (8 Years) development that is a Telstra Smart Community with FTTP in place. Will Velocity users be able to access the new 1000/250 plans when they eventually come online ? Currently on 100/5 and would love the faster upload Smiley Happy Cheers,

Just me

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Level 25: The Singularity
Level 25: The Singularity

Re: Telstra Smart Community FTTP - New Gigabit plans

Telstra hasn't made any announcement regarding any future higher speed NBN plans.

 

Velocity isn't part of the NBN, and it will probably require more upgrades to the infrstructure to ever come near to being able to support those types of speeds, so I wouldn't be counting on those speeds becoming available in the forseeable future.

Never be afraid to back yourself when trying new things, just always make sure you have 3 escape routes if things go wrong.
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Level 4: Private Eye

Re: Telstra Smart Community FTTP - New Gigabit plans

No. Telstra will suck us dry. They have an infrastructure monopoly, which means that they couldn't care less. Based on my personal experience and what I can see on the web, consider yourself extremely lucky to have 5 Mbps upload instead of 1 Mbps.

 

This is one of your best bets to change the situation: https://www.communications.gov.au/have-your-say/consultation-telstra-request-extensions-ministerial-...

 

Also, Telstra doesn't need to do anything to the infrastructure. The ONT on your wall supports only one speed and that's, and I quote "2.488 Gb/s line rate downstream, 1.244 Gb/s line rate upstream", which GPON is meant to do over 20 km, the Ethernet ports are symmetric gigabit. That's 100% the same as the NBN.

 

It doesn't need infrastructure upgrades, Telstra needs to stop artificially restricting speeds to that extent. Step one is to get them to get level 2 services, which the above consultation is directly in regards to, and will make it actually viable for third parties to sell services on it for starters.

 

One fun thing they also put in there:

 

> There are a number of active retail service providers (RSPs) offering services in the South Brisbane exchange area other than Telstra.

 

Pray tell, who else other than Exetel? And I just did a request for an Exetel connection at a Telstra Velocity address and it said "Fibre is not currently available for your address.", so I agree that there is a number, but that number appears to be zero. And even if it isn't, because Telstra made Velocity a non-layer 2 service and because it's fragmented across the country, it's uneconomical for other RSPs to offer a service.

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Level 4: Private Eye

Re: Telstra Smart Community FTTP - New Gigabit plans

Because Telstra made Velocity a non-layer 2 service and because it's fragmented across the country, it's uneconomical for other RSPs to offer a service unless it's even more expensive than Velocity with Telstra. The minimum cost even with Telstra is $75 a month for 30/1, set to rise by $7 to subsidise NBN connections that are faster than that. NBN can be less than $50.

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Level 4: Private Eye

Re: Telstra Smart Community FTTP - New Gigabit plans

I too have submitted a letter to the consultation to deny an extension to Telstra, only way we get something happening if we start taking action to block Telstra receiving any more extensions, With 3 extensions already granted over a period of 8 years, and wanting another 3 years, shows there is no intention for Telstra to do anything to improve things.

 

So everyone, file your own objection on the comms website, also let your local federal member know too. The more people who do this, the more chance we have of something happening.

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Level 25: The Singularity
Level 25: The Singularity

Re: Telstra Smart Community FTTP - New Gigabit plans

The South Brisbane Exchange area is a special case (it's not a True Velocity type area, nor a True FTTP area). It was implemented as a replacement phone (not internet) service as the exchange that operated on the Children's Hospital site needed to be removed, and the nearest exchange was too far away to successfully run copper cables to it. Just allowing competitors access won't increase the speeds as they are limited by the design and intent of the hardware that operates that service.

 

Telstra would love for NBN Co to take over that area (they already made a commitment to the ACCC as part of the structural separation agreement), but NBN Co appear to be in no rush to do so. And even then, they would need to perform large upgrades to bring it up to a Layer 2 service spec.

Never be afraid to back yourself when trying new things, just always make sure you have 3 escape routes if things go wrong.
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Level 4: Private Eye

Re: Telstra Smart Community FTTP - New Gigabit plans

I love how you said that:

 

> "just allowing competitors access won't increase the speeds" and

> "large upgrades to bring it up to a layer 2 service spec"

 

Yet somehow the fundamental demand that Telstra ups the upload speeds from 1 or 5 Mbps is so completely inconceivable that you wouldn't even mention such an unthinkable proposition.

 

Here's a fun fact: You have a FTTP network built in large part over the past decade, are the biggest provider of backhaul in one of the world's wealthiest nations, yet somehow that amounts to a product whose nominal top speed that seems to be actively sold of 1 Mbps is slower than the average fixed line upstream internet speeds in 173 out of 174 countries.

 

If you know in such detail what Telstra's equipment and infrastructure can or can't do ("limited by design and intent", "large upgrades"), can you please explain how the thing on the wall here that does 1 Gbps out the Ethernet, and talks 1.244 Gbps out the other end and connects to a backhaul network that supports plenty of 40 Mbps connections magically ends up at 1 Mbps, while the equipment from the same vendor three hundreds metres north or east from where I live with the same protocols and all is now about to sell services with 1000/50 Mbps up or 250/100? How? Because that's the big unmentioned elephant in the room.

 

Nobody would care if Telstra didn't do Layer 2 or didn't "just allowing competitors access" if they provided a service that's not at least 40 times slower (or maybe 8, if you're happy to work for 3 months to get Telstra to give you a speed boost, and soon even worse) on broadly the same equipment and infrastructure than the people down the street have.

 

But in the decade long absence of that and the service being ever more abysmal by both Australian and international standards, you're going to see people start to try any way around it since the silence is overwhelmingly loud.

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Level 4: Private Eye

Re: Telstra Smart Community FTTP - New Gigabit plans

And if those large upgrades are such a financial burden for a company with a billion in profit, then maybe at $75/1 Mbps for Velocity you should spare a thought for the poor people of the strange, faraway, completely unlike Australia country of New Zealand whose incumbent telcos are now seemingly willingly rolling out $200/4000 Mbps in a broad residential rollout = $0.05/1 Mbps.

 

And doing so on a previously GPON network with most equipment from Nokia/Alcatel-Lucent? But that's what Velocity is and has! Inconceivable! Impossible! How are the Kiwi's doing it? Don't they know we're the lucky country!

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Level 4: Private Eye

Re: Telstra Smart Community FTTP - New Gigabit plans

Here's the phone number of Chorus in New Zealand: +64 800 600 100

 

You're welcome. I'm sure they'll be happy to answer your questions as to how they are doing these incredible things for such little money next Monday, and it's not like you're, mostly, competing in the same markets. Unless they're also really into random Asian ventures for sending money down the drain.

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Level 20: Director
Level 20: Director

Re: Telstra Smart Community FTTP - New Gigabit plans

Hi – I would like to contribute to this thread as a means of trying to personally understand the complex issues involved with Telstra Velocity (one of my friends is on it), as I too have wondered why these Telstra customers appear to have been quarantined at their varied service speed offerings. Telstra, is a Non-NBN Service Provider having met the 25/5 Mbps threshold set by the ACCC for their Superfast Broadband Access Service with Velocity which operates at 30/5 (30/1 actual in some areas) and 100/5 Mbps.

 

I don’t know why these limits were set in different areas by Telstra around Australia, why they appear unchangeable and why upgrades to better combinations haven’t been offered. It would be good to know the reasons, as it begs the question why it could not have been done on the current Telstra Velocity equipment network as 12,000 users does not look like a challenge to accommodate. If anyone knows the technical reasons, please share your knowledge.

 

It seems to me whatever arrangements that have occurred between Telstra and NBN for transition have not been made public and hopefully the expiry of current temporary exemption from the Designated Day which sunsets on 1st July 2020 may be the catalyst for change. Telstra has indicated it will be the last time it requests an extension to Part 7 and Part 8 which may imply that transition timelines are in the home straight but not yet finalised for implementation from either a technical or commercial settlement with NBN point of view.

 

I think we all agree that the current Telstra Velocity Network was never set up to meet the NBN Distribution model and as such, the network equipment currently supporting Velocity will have to be replaced or parts upgraded, not the Fibre connection links. I can understand why Telstra would not do this if they are going to exit that network. NBN will take over the responsibility and provide their own Layer 2 Local Bitstream Access Service Network infrastructure ( a la NBN FTTP) and integrate that into the NBN Operational Support System (OSS).

 

Both of these are required so that any RSP can then offer their NBN enabled retail services to ex Velocity customers. The replacement NBN Network infrastructure, has to fit into the NBN national model which has 120 Points of Interconnect to its core network from RSPs around Australia. [#] I would expect that both the existing Velocity Network and the replacement NBN Network would need to be operational during transition, so not an easy task given the different infrastructures, OSS systems, billing and other complexities involved.

 

This is what I understand to be a generic diagram [*] of a Layer 2 Local Bitsream Access Service looks like – there is no Point-to-Point link between the RSP/ISP and the customer, it is provided by NBN. That is how people 300 metres north and east of South Brisbane are able to subscribe to higher NBN speeds – they are on their separate NBN network to Telstra’s Velocity network and Telstra is an RSP selling its NBN enabled services.

 

Layer 2 Local Bitsream Access Service - Wikipedia Bit-Stream Access

* [xDSL as the local loop, concept applies to all forms of Access connection per the second diagram].

 

NBN Network Design Rules 29 June 2018 Overview – the ex Velocity customer base has to integrate into the FTTP customer stream depicted so that it can be serviced properly by an RSP of choice model and managed by NBN.

 

Hopefully we will know the outcome of those submissions to the ACCC soon – the 1st of July is not too far away. Unfortunately, unless here has been a lot of work done behind the scenes on transition investments, we will not know the timelines involved until some more public statements are made by NBN and Telstra.

 

I think it is great to see people encouraging submissions to the ACCC which may provide a mandated direction to Telstra to adjust current restricted offerings during the transition period – people need to be heard.

 

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Level 4: Private Eye

Re: Telstra Smart Community FTTP - New Gigabit plans

Nobody would care about Telstra not doing layer 2 if they provided a competitive product. Yet, despite all of that...

 

If only Telstra had the kind of super-sophisticated utterly complicated capability that seems to be beyond the realm of a company with only a billion in profit... some kind of proven perhaps even nation-wide capability to provide a layer 2 service over existing Telstra Fibre... oh wait: https://www.telstra.com.au/business-enterprise/products/networks/connectivity/ethernet-optical/natio...

 

And speaking of the equipment. I think you will find that the customer's equipment does layer 2.5, which is what PPPoE does. The Telstra NTD on the wall operates below that, it almost has to be like some kind of layer below "2.5", whatever that would be. Both the NBN and Telstra Velocity use a Nokia (formerly Alcatel-Lucent) ISAM ONT supporting GPON and Gigabit Ethernet. And both have exactly the same GPON, Ethernet and G.984, G.984.3 and G.988 specs for management and provisioning.

 

It seems that somehow Telstra has the capability of doing layer 2 services for other providers at the backend (through backhaul and Business Ethernet) and the capability of doing layer 2 at the frontend. It's just that somehow, for some strange reason Telstra hasn't been able to do so for the better part of the past decade by just throwing it's hands up in the air and shouting 'too hard'. It's almost as if Telstra had some kind of motive.

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